Greening of Main: Do we need a $686k pocket park surrounded by nothing?

[thelakelander]

It looks like the Greening of Main project will be getting underway soon. For those who don't know, it will include the city spending $686,157 to construct a pocket park surrounded by surface parking lots, parking garages and a Salvation Army labor pool office. Some believe that people will read library books there, but fail to recognize that the library already has its own courtyard and Hemming Plaza is only ONE BLOCK away from this site.

It seems that this nearly full block of city owned land would be better used for commercial development at street level with workforce housing above. That's something that would put money in the city's pockets and could still incorporate greenspace (at the expense of the developer), freeing up that $686k to be used somewhere else in downtown. Thoughts?


This thing has shopping carts written all over it

From: Crawford, Paul Sent: Mon 12/4/2006 3:33 PM
To: Skipper, Misty; Walthour, Ginny
Cc:
Subject: FW: Main Street Hardscape/Park Project Improvements
Attachments:

Is there a groundbreaking ceremony associated with this? Maybe Parks is doing something. I think the Mayor should be all over this.

Paul R. Crawford

Deputy Executive Director

Jacksonville Economic Development Commission

220 East Bay Street

Jacksonville, FL 32202

(904) 630-6946

Please note that under Florida's very broad public records law, e-mail communications to and from city officials are subject to public disclosure.

_____________________________________________
From: Joyce, William
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 8:05 AM
To: Crawford, Paul
Subject: FW: Main Street Hardscape/Park Project Improvements

Sorry, I should have copied you on this yesterday.

Bill

_____________________________________________
From: Joyce, William
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 9:50 AM
To: Hall, Edgar
Cc: Pappas, John; Arnett, Martha; West, Lori
Subject: Main Street Hardscape/Park Project Improvements

Per our telephone conversation, an update for the above is as follows:

Apparent/Responsive low bidder is Jensen Civil Construction Inc. We have received FDOT concurrence on the bid and recommendation to apparent lowest responsive bidder.

Base Bid (Sidewalk Hardscape Improvements Forsyth to Union) $1,145,101.50

Add Alternate #3 (Park Improvements) $686,157.00

Add Alternate #4 (Electrical Conduit to facilitate any future lighting) $24,600.00

Total Award amount $1,855,858.50.

Add Alternate #2 Landscape Maintenance (Extend Hardscape maintenance one additional year) $23,980.00

Add Alternate #4 Landscape Maintenance (Extend Park maintenance one additional year) $19,135.00

Add Alternate #2 & #4 are not being awarded due to insufficient funds at this time.

Construction Time for Park 90-Days.

Construction Time for Hardscape Improvements 180-Days.

Time running concurrently.



The awards letter has been drafted and sent to PRE. I anticipate being on next weeks Awards Committee Meeting Agenda Dec 7th. Based on successfully awarding the project 12-7-06 I project the following schedule:

Award 12-7-06

Execution of contract 12-22-07 (Schedule may adjust due to holidays)

Schedule Preconstruction Meeting 1-19-07

Begin Construction 1-29-07

Park Construction Complete 4-30-07

Project Complete 7-30-07

If there are any questions I can be reached at 630-1324.

Thanks, Bill

[copperfiend]

Wasn't this the same piece of land Ben Carter said would be better if put to use as commercial property?

[thelakelander]

yes, apparently no one listened.

[thelakelander]

We have a history of poor park maintenance in the core (ex. Hogan's Creek). This is a bad sign.

Add Alternate #2 Landscape Maintenance (Extend Hardscape maintenance one additional year) $23,980.00

Add Alternate #4 Landscape Maintenance (Extend Park maintenance one additional year) $19,135.00

Add Alternate #2 & #4 are not being awarded due to insufficient funds at this time.

[Lunican]

This is really stupid. That money could be used to maintain the parks we already have that are in total disrepair.

[thelakelander]

a photo of the park site from a press conference earlier this year.

How to make urban pocket parks work


1. They have to be designed in a manner that attracts a diverse amount of people on a daily and around-the-clock basis. You'll need more than grass and landscaping to attract a diverse amount of usage. One would think we learned that lesson with the pocket park on the corner of Broad and Bay Streets. In the illustration above, this new public park (in Detroit of all places) solves that issue by incorporating a mix of uses including an Au Bon Pain Cafe (similar to Panera Bread), monuments, fountains, greenspace and outdoor seating areas. Retail uses such as Borders Books and Hard Rock Cafe are also located across the street, creating a scene of synergy with the park.

2. They need to be located in areas with uses that feed their activity. The Main Street park is surrounded by parking lots and a day labor pool office. Not exactly the idea use to feed the park with visitors. Yes, the back of the library is located across Main (a one-way freeway with lights), but the library has its own courtyard and Hemming Plaza is across the street. If you wanted to read a book outdoors, which location would you choose?



This small urban pocket park was developed as a Holocaust Memorial, virtually making it a highly visited attraction within itself. If the city is going to force a pocket park on this great development site, the least it could do is give it a theme that educates visitors about events that have taken place in Jacksonville. Possibly some of the things discussed in this thread:

What if Jacksonville Suddenly Woke Up?
http://www.metjax.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3671

[RiversideGator]

Our city leaders are so touchingly naive when it comes to urban planning. They believe that if you plant some nice flowers and trees somewhere then, presto, nice people will just show up and frolic. Unfortunately, in the real world things dont quite work that way. As Lake stated, you must have reasons for the people to come there and must have surrounding parcels of land filled with vibrancy rather than lodging for bums and vagrants. Here we have the opposite and this is destined to be yet another failure.

I suggest that if Peyton wants a signature downtown park accomplishment he should restore the Hogan's Creek Greenway (including Klutho and Confederate Parks) and take care of what we already have. His plan as currently devised will fail.

[thelakelander]

Here's some pictures of the park in Detroit I mentioned earlier, showcasing the number of uses.

Ice Skating in the Winter (Green Lawn with stage in the Summer)


Fountain


aerial


Green Lawn


Au Bon Pain Cafe


Monument

[thelakelander]

Sounds good and gets straight to the point. Send it off!

[thelakelander]

Considering the site of the pocket park is more than half a city block...


How about a mixed-use project incorporating a linear park/plaza along the new Main Street streetscape?


Considering the size of the site and the amount of traffic down Main, it would be an ideal location for a Walgreens or CVS at street level. If you were a downtown resident or worker, which one would you chose. A block wide $686,000 taxpayer funded patch of grass or a block with an urban pharmacy at street level, yet still incorporating a little greenspace in the form of urban courtyard or plaza space....at the expense of the developer?



Considering its located a few blocks off the river and surrounded by parking lots, how about a workforce housing development, with retail at street level?

[Diane Melendez]

Lake, I think a mixed use project would be brilliant. Something much like the first sketch in post 12. It would add a bit of vibrancy to downtown and still add that park feel the city seems to be after.

One serious consideration that should be considered is that we can expect a a migration of homeless to populate any new park that is put at the target location. Nights could be a real problem. Again, city leaders are plunging ahead with a new project and have yet to adequately address one of the issues hampering development, and that is where the homeless go when the shelters are closed as well as getting rid of the thugs that prowl there. My question is why are we talking about developing a park with this high price tag, when we need a day center for the homeless that takes them out of the downtown core and more money for law enforcement?

[danno]

DP
Great letter. The upside is it might draw some of the day labor crowd from around the Shell station. It seems that whenever I stop there for the emergency gallon to get me to some gas that is more affordable you have to navigate the crowd.

[thelakelander]

The negative is that pulls them back into the heart of the Northbank core. If anything, the $686k should be used to Salvation Army's property giving them sufficient funds to relocate that center from the heart of downtown. Then the city would have almost two full blocks of property for infill development between Main and Ocean Streets.

[RADIO TALK SHOW HOST]

This may be a rotten idea and a lousey reason to put forword the idea

If the market isn't demanding any solutions because private enterprise doesn't see the land as marketable as it should be

maybe just put a cheap execise track there until a real viable project comes up that will pay its own way

at least THAT would serve a purpose, for a little while, people getting out of their offices to walk or run around in circles

I THINK THE ACOUTA bridge kinda already serves this purpose but you kinda have to be real committed using your whole lunch hour

THEN ONCE THAT SELECTED WORTHWHILE PROJECT COMES UP THE CITY JUST PUTS A RUNNING OR WALKING TRACK SOMEWHERE ELSE USE IT AS A WAY TO DO SOMETHING WITH THE LAND WHILE WE ARE THINKING ABOUT THE MOST APPROPRIATE USE

[thelakelander]

Considering the high profile location, why would you think the market wouldn't demand development? Like many of its under utilized properties, the city has never the market a chance. We don't need a park there, with Hemming and the library's courtyard less than one block away and other's like Klutho, Confederate and the Southbank Riverwalk in desparate need of repair. If, for what ever reason the market wouldn't respond to such a site (I seriously doubt that it wouldn't), we'd still be better off keeping it a parking lot and taking that $686,000 and applying it other existing parks.

[Jimmy]

Dave, the people we trust to create incentives and make new development downtown work have been doing just that -- running around in the same, cliched, unworking circles for years. Stuck on stupid.

I don't see where the demand is coming from to create yet another homeless congregation zone (HCZ). I think we have plenty of HCZ's in that general vicinity without spending over half a million dollars to create another one. I guess they want a new HCZ since JSO has been aggressively policing the other main HCZ at Hemming. Stuck on stupid.

[RADIO TALK SHOW HOST]

I think the market downtown is stalling because private enterprises don't think the city is serious about not giving away our assets
TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION I THINK THE PRIVATE MARKET SHOULD VALUE THE PROPERTY they won't jump on it until the city seems content not to sell it AS LONG AS THE PEOPLE TRYING TO FEED OFF PUBLIC SUBSITIES see downtown as a wasteland until we bribe them to fix it THEY WILL ALWAYS JUST BUY THE VACANT EYESORE

Originally Posted by thelakelander

Considering the high profile location, why would you think the market wouldn't demand development? Like many of its under utilized properties, the city has never the market a chance.

[thelakelander]

Then how do you explain the purchases of the Barnett, Laura Trio and Riverwatch properties by Kuhn, or Sleiman's market rate purchase of the Landing's East lot? How about the developers of Metropolitan Lofts, 218 Lofts or Chamblin's Uptown? Or Main Branch's purchase of the Haydon Burns and Cowford LLC's $40 million buy from JEA? I don't believe the purchase of this lot would have anything to do with subsidies. Opposite of the past, we'd make money for a change by selling the land.

[RADIO TALK SHOW HOST]

if this is the case THATS WHY YOU SHOULD BE REGARDED AS THE EXPERT
and I should be JUST regarded as the guy who bitches WHEN the city fails to recognize the experts

I'm glad we had this conversation

maybe an excercise track somewhere else

Originally Posted by thelakelander

Then how do you explain the purchases of the Barnett, Laura Trio and Riverwatch properties by Kuhn, or Sleiman's market rate purchase of the Landing's East lot? How about the developers of Metropolitan Lofts, 218 Lofts or Chamblin's Uptown? Or Main Branch's purchase of the Haydon Burns and Cowford LLC's $40 million buy from JEA? I don't believe the purchase of this lot would have anything to do with subsidies. Opposite of the past, we'd make money for a change by selling the land.

[thelakelander]

Although I work in the industry, I'm consider myself more of a concerned citizen who wants to see Jacksonville live up to its potential. Btw, there's an exercise track between the YMCA and the Northbank Riverwalk, just south of Haskell's building.