Candidate Questions - What to do with Friendship Fountain

[Noone]

I hope current and future city council candidates will respond to this. Councilwoman Jenkins I hope you will respond to this as well. I'm interested in your thoughts on this issue.
As a city council member I would vote to restore Friendship Fountain.
As a city council member I would vote to alter Friendship Fountain.
Thank you in advance for anyone participating.

[Jimmy]

... I would vote to restore Friendship Fountain to its prior glory. I say this with the caveat that some changes should be made in the park and in the vicinity of the fountain, i.e., updated furniture and park amenities, and an expanded Maritime Museum. But the Fountain itself should have the capabilities, at minimum, that it had when it was new. Since it's in my district, I take it very seriously, obviously.

[Noone]

Jimmy, Thanks for the response back.
I was thinking it was in district 4. So much for re-districting.
Still hope councilwoman Jenkins as well as other candidates weigh in on this issue.

[MarriedBro]

I think the fountain should be demolished and something built that would be more of a drawing card for downtown.

I will miss the fountain as it was the spot of many of SingleBro's romantic conquests, but to me it has reached eyesore status. Not only the fountain, but the entire area needs re-thinking. You want downtown to be a draw for people, then start with the fountain.

One idea is to build a new fountain that has today's technology in it. It could do various designs and dance to music (ala the Bellagio in Vegas). That would draw people to downtown. The unexpectancy of the it would bring repeat visitors.

Speaking of redesign, when you're elected Jimmy, please do something with that crappy light thing on the main street bridge. It was great for the Superbowl, but has been annoying since.

Thats my take. Rebuild. I am tired as hell of this city trying to restore everything. Lets give this century its own unique look.

[Suzanne Jenkins]

I agree with Jimmy in the area surrounding it needs to be rethought and updated to a user friendly area for everyone. There is too much concrete and the possibilities are great for the rework of this older park. The Southbank is changing and this park should reflect that.

My understanding is $75,000.00 dollars is needed to replace the pump that governs the large fountain spray in the middle. I would like to see that happen now, while the rest of the park is being planned and reworked.

[MarriedBro]

My response to Suzanne and Jimmy is this. What would restoring the fountain do for downtown? Despite the push to get people downtown, it is a cultural desert.

[Jimmy]

John, the districting over there is crazy. On the southbank, everything between the FWB and MSB is in district 9. It's surrounded by 4 to the east and 5 to the west. It's one of the more curious spots that we have to look at when we reapportion in 2010.

[Jimmy]

MB, I just believe that you can't have a Jacksonville identity without some of the signature landmarks that have been used over the years to define us. Look at any rack of Jacksonville postcards and you will see (the fully functional) Friendship Fountain displayed on many of them. We've been over this before in another thread, but I have such fond memories of playing around the fountain when I was young... and if I have those memories, I know that others do, too. We can build exciting, new attractions on open land that has been neglected. But when it comes to preserving our heritage for our posterity, my first instinct is to do so.

And I believe that the lights on the Main Street Bridge are tastefully done and actually a good example of how we can update aspects of our history for the new century while retaining the look and feel of classic Jacksonville. All of this comes down to a matter of taste, and people can disagree about these topics without anyone being "wrong."

[MarriedBro]

So then Jimmy, you are right and I am right. But we still need to address this issue of a dying downtown that will have the same old fountain, if you are elected. Also, keep in mind that Jacksonville is losing a lot of its professional citizens between the ages of 25 and 34 to more progressive thinking metropolitan areas that can offer more to do. So if you think about it, not only is downtown dying, but so is Jacksonville, despite the growth numbers. In other words, its the wrong kind of growth.

What then are your thoughts of drawing people downtown? Making downtown a destination as opposed to a pass-through. (please don't rehash the ideas of other admins that did not work).

Jimmy, we expect fresh ideas from a young candidate, not someone that will tow the line.

[vicupstate]

Originally Posted by Downtownparks

In regards to the fountain issue. I think the fountain needs to be retain, but I am also in favor of making the area more of an attraction. The fountain is iconic, and needs to stay, but it is such a large area that it really could do more. I dont mean playground equipment of an "interactive fountain" either. I think that more "events" can be put on there. They have tried weekly concerts in Hemming, why not make it open for live music, or have "Club Friendship" where you sopnsor DJs and server some beer. I dont know, but it sure seems like MORE could happen down there that would add to the vibrancy of both the south bank and DT.

I agree. Friendship is an icon and adds not only to the Southbank landscape but also to the view from the Landing across the river. I concur that the area surrounding the Fountain is in need of new energy and drawing power.

Just because you update/remodel a room doesn't mean that you gut the entire room. You can get a new look and new purpose without starting from scratch. Same principal is at work in the FF case.

BTW, MarriedBro, does Mrs.MarriedBro know about your "Friendships" at the fountain? ; )

[Charles Hunter]

When I visited Atlanta this summer, one of the radio stations sponsored weekly (Wednesday) concerts in a corner of Olympic Park. That corner of the park had been set up for concerts - terraced for seating, either on the concrete steps or bring your own chairs (which a lot of people did). Wonderful evening. Maybe the City, Downtown Vision, and a radio station could do something similar at Friendship Park. The City could do its part by remolding some of that open space between the Fountain and the restaurant with terraced seating. Have the seating face the River, and a good spot for watching fireworks and the boat parade, too.

[Jimmy]

Well, I am one of those young professionals who is in the age-range that you highlighted. I agree with you that many of my peers are leaving Jacksonville. People go away for college and stay away. It's one of the things we have to work on. We also have to work on providing something meaningful in this city for the many people who move here.

I don't think that people my age are going to come hang out at a fountain, no matter how exciting it is. Frankly, I think fountains are attractions for the young and the old. People my age would bring their kids to see the fountain. Especially if there were other interesting things to do in the area.

But, we're talking about two different things. Yes, downtown should have attractions and I think it does and will. But it should also be a neighborhood unto itself. The work that I want to do in the urban core is to undo the effects of white flight and the resulting decades of neglect. I want affordable places for people my age, and of any age, to live. I want amenities that anyone needs in their neighborhood like a pharmacy, movie theater, restaurants, and other services. As we make it easier for developers to rehab old buildings and make affordable housing options available, the other things I've described will follow. Better planning for public services (courthouse) and a more meaningful acknowledgment of downtown's unique needs (lighting, signage, transit) are critical to what you desire.

You can't say that someone who favors historic preservation in this city is towing any kind of line. That's unsupportable. Past and current leaders have worked overtime to destroy elements of our history. It's actually quite revolutionary to suggest that Jacksonville has an important historic identity that should be honored and preserved. A drive through Springfield or Riverside will reveal my thinking on this. We can save our architectural and historical treasures even while we build new and modern amenities that complement them and continue to build a city that attracts and retains talent, rather than chasing it to Atlanta, Charlotte, and Birmingham.

[MarriedBro]

Vicupstate

Please be reminded that it was SingleBro that developed the friendships at the Park :-} MarriedSis rated higher. Took her to St Augustine.


Jimmy, good political response. Its great to see you have some real thought around it. I respectfully disagree with your thinking though. I believe if you re-built the fountain to be a modern fountain that had a lot of technology (ala, the Bellagio model), that it would attract all ages to downtown. It would again make that area the center attraction for people of the city. Not sure whether you are old enough to recall, but the technology that was in place when it was put in service was unique to the era. Why not follow that same line of thinking now? The fountain sucks now. Replacing the pump, would make it suck like 60s technology given a rebirth in 2007-08. Why would I want to bring my family and relatives to see that.

A lot of thinking in Jax is centered around people wanting to keep things as they were "when they got here". Enough of that. We have done that and all we have for it is a bunch of leaders thinking that full time employment equals employing people in the customer service industries (nothing wrong with being employed there, but the income levels don't make Jax even a 2nd tier city).

Jimmy, your thinking to me reflects someone who is not focused on really what it will take to make the city great. Appears that if you are elected, we will put polish on an old shoe and then call it a new shoe. Time to think out of the box bud. Right now, given your great response above, I am not seeing you as different from Fullwood or worst yet his predecessor.

[Jimmy]

Thoughtful discussions like these are what it will take to make Jacksonville approach its potential. I appreciate the dialog. I am not necessarily wedded to 1960's technology for the fountain pump system. Frankly, I don't know what else is possible given the engineering and geography. I am set on maintaining the current footprint of the fountain itself. If there's a way to work within the existing footprint (both the space and the construction) and still create something new that will be more modern and up-to-date, then I would certainly be open to that.

"When I got here" was when I was born. I do not want to return to Jacksonville of the 70's, 80's, or 90's. Urban renewal would have us reach back further and create a vibrant downtown (like we had then) with modern accents that are necessary in any major city. And while you might want to compare me to my predecessors, please resist that easy temptation. I am very much my own man with ideas and new ways of thinking that will help Jacksonville move forward.

The customer service/call center mentality is partially to blame for where we are now. Those jobs were transitory. When I was in college, I worked one of them. But, anyone paying attention can tell that those jobs are moving overseas and are also being replaced by automation. We need an economy in Jacksonville that is diverse and focused on landing skilled industries. To get there, we need amenities in town that will encourage people to take a serious look at us. That's the step where we are today.

And I'm just not sure we're going to see eye-to-eye on this. But help me understand: do you think we should just level all the old junk and built shiny new home, businesses, and buildings? Should we demolish the Annie Lytle School? Should we raze Brooklyn like we did LaVilla? Should we give up on our history and focus only on building a completely new Jacksonville? I need to better understand where you're coming from.

Plus, all of these things have to be done within the context of strengthening the residential neighborhoods that exist today. In my district we are confronted by all of the realities of Jacksonville today: crime, blight, low wages, shortfalls in education, shrinking social services, minimal health care, and the constant threat of economic collapse. So, in my mind, we have to prop up what we have today before we can get too far afield in bringing What Comes Next. But we do need to plan the future and think now about the best way to make it a reality. Being thoughtful and forward-thinking is critical in local government.

[Jim Minion]

Thought I would chime in on this one. Even though Friendship Fountain is not in my District, historical preservation and it's cost are a big issue here also. The fact of the matter is that if you want to have nice things, they take maintenance and maintenance costs money. When these are nice, old things, they take more maintenance. When we evaluate the worth of preserving something old and nice, we must not only consider the spread sheet value but also the cost of loss of the irreplaceable, which is necessarily more difficult. The only time I am bummed about Friendship Fountain is when it's dark and still. If Memorial Park fountain were in jeopardy, I would fight even against the legions of Hell to defend it. Memorial fountain is a successful draw because of what is around it and that it is a historic work of art. I believe that the project to restore Friendship Fountain should be much more than a plumbing project. It should be a project that restores and upgrades the fountain and the park around it. Let's have some sculptures regarding "friendship." Let's have the pumphouse become a green building. Let's have events at the park. Let's bring back kite flying to the riverfront. Let's have a quarter pipe installed so that MOSH can display "the skateboarder" as the world's only true perpetual motion machine. And let's also have the community get involved with the plans, both conceptually and financially. Not all aspects of our quality of life are profitable. A downtown project that brings the community together will pay dividends forever.

[johnmeeks1974]

The customer service/call center mentality is partially to blame for where we are now. Those jobs were transitory. When I was in college, I worked one of them.

Same goes for the temp jobs that sprouted up all over the place in the area back in the 1990s. I worked various assignments for TRC, Kelly, and Manpower. Temp jobs were plentiful for those willing to work in various spots for one day (Like I did when Anheuser-Busch went on strike - delivering beer to places as far away as Starke) or over two years (Like I did at the computer tech dispatch desk at Prudential). I don't think that someone could sustain themselves for long periods of time as a temp today, with the exception of being a substitute teacher for Kelly!

As for the Southbank, there should be much going on over there. It's absurd that this prime piece of city property is not a major center of daily life. The lack of density downtown does hinder regular activity because it takes special forethought for someone in the suburbs to say, "Let's go hang out on the Southbank."

[Noone]

For those current and future potential Jacksonville city council candidates who are chiming in on this issue and the posts of others. I say keep it coming.

I'm with councilwoman Jenkins in saying fix it NOW. Jimmy your right on with restoring it to its old glory. Council candidate district 14 Jim I think you can throw another bell in the existing fountain and get another whistle.

The only thing stopping this fountain from getting fixed is leadership. Suzanne thanks for sharing the $75,000 price tag for just fixing it now. If that figure is off 10,000 or so either way so what. I still say to myself everyday $36,500,000 of taxpayer money gone with Shipyards and 16 acres of Public Space reduced to 8. And we can't fix a pump on our Friendship Fountain in the heart of our Downtown. Give me a break as well as the taxpayers.

District 9 that explains a lot. Our current city council president District 14 Michael Corrigan who took over the District 9 duties per-se with the exodus of councilman Reggie Fullwood could introduce legislaton to move forward and get it fixed. You would hope and think that he would have support from the administration as well as our new Executive Director of Parks Recreation, Entertainment and now included in the title is CONSERVATION John Culbreth.

I remember with the last city council a situation where each council district member was aked to kick in 10 or $15,000 some amount of their lolli-pop district money to help support a project that ultimately had the benefit for all the citizens of Jacksonville. And the council members did it.

If our current council president Michael Corrigan doesn't lead in this friendly piece of legislation and the money may just be sitting there in District 9 to just do it. Then I hope as another friendly piece of legislation That my council representative Suzanne Jenkins could introduce legilation to get it fixed NOW.

[MarriedBro]

Let me give you an example of what we need to do with the fountain. Take the library. One of the best decisions ever made in Jacksonville. My family and I go there just for the heck of it and will continue to do so. If they had chosen to restore the old one on Adams and Ocean, would we have the same passion about it? Hell no. I look at the old library and the old fountain in the same manner. As relics that don't add any real value to Jacksonville any more. Time to move on.

Jim Minion made a truly interesting point. How much money will it take to maintain this "institution".

Another point to make regarding the fountain is that when it was launched, it was during an era that represented the worst of Jax. The 60s. Segregation abounded. Separate but not equal was the rule of the day. Sit-ins, lots of racial hatred. Bold new city of the South meant that Jacksonvilles haves and have-nots were separated by a river. The fountain is on what was considered the haves side. Other than my romantic conquests, why would I want to recall that.

Not trying to stir the flames, just trying to put more perspective on the subject. Jimmy mentioned that many people recall better days when they see the fountain. I counter that by saying that many people recall pain filled days. Personally I like the fountain, but I truly believe its time season has come and ended. I also believe in restoration and truly love what is being done with some of the buildings downtown and in Springfield. There are places for it. Having a historical relic for a showplace is not the kind of forward thinking we need in city council.

When I think of cities that are faced with the decisions that the new administration will face, I think of South Florida. Miami specifically. Instead of resting on their laurels as we appear to be doing in Jax, they are building a whole new city on top of the city that currently exists. I visited 2 weeks ago, and there are at least 100 hi-rise cranes just in their downtown area. Jacksonville has 2. What a disparity. This is what I refer to when I say Jax is dying.

I think Suzanne threw the 75k number out as a best guess. Same thinking that went into the courthouse. I'll bet the pump is not even manufactured anymore. Not calling Suzanne a liar, but would like to see the paperwork behind her estimate.

Build a new fountain. Much cheaper for us taxpayers in the long-run.

[vicupstate]

Originally Posted by MarriedBro

Let me give you an example of what we need to do with the fountain. Take the library. One of the best decisions ever made in Jacksonville. My family and I go there just for the heck of it and will continue to do so. If they had chosen to restore the old one on Adams and Ocean, would we have the same passion about it? Hell no. I look at the old library and the old fountain in the same manner. As relics that don't add any real value to Jacksonville any more. Time to move on.

Jim Minion made a truly interesting point. How much money will it take to maintain this "institution".

Another point to make regarding the fountain is that when it was launched, it was during an era that represented the worst of Jax. The 60s. Segregation abounded. Separate but not equal was the rule of the day. Sit-ins, lots of racial hatred. Bold new city of the South meant that Jacksonvilles haves and have-nots were separated by a river. The fountain is on what was considered the haves side. Other than my romantic conquests, why would I want to recall that.

Not trying to stir the flames, just trying to put more perspective on the subject. Jimmy mentioned that many people recall better days when they see the fountain. I counter that by saying that many people recall pain filled days. Personally I like the fountain, but I truly believe its time season has come and ended. I also believe in restoration and truly love what is being done with some of the buildings downtown and in Springfield. There are places for it. Having a historical relic for a showplace is not the kind of forward thinking we need in city council.

When I think of cities that are faced with the decisions that the new administration will face, I think of South Florida. Miami specifically. Instead of resting on their laurels as we appear to be doing in Jax, they are building a whole new city on top of the city that currently exists. I visited 2 weeks ago, and there are at least 100 hi-rise cranes just in their downtown area. Jacksonville has 2. What a disparity. This is what I refer to when I say Jax is dying.

I think Suzanne threw the 75k number out as a best guess. Same thinking that went into the courthouse. I'll bet the pump is not even manufactured anymore. Not calling Suzanne a liar, but would like to see the paperwork behind her estimate.

Build a new fountain. Much cheaper for us taxpayers in the long-run.

MarriedBro, the Old Library IS being preserved. But as a different use. No amount of money or engineering could have made the Hayden Burns Library functional as a modern day library. Therefore that USE was abondoned. That doesn't mean that the building itself can't still be utilized.

When the Haydon Burns is occupied (hopefully) by a Specialty Grocer and/or a Borders you might see the point I am trying to make.

Cities like London, Paris and Rome don't destroy their history just because it is old, or because they were built during troubled times (feeding Christians to the Lions in the Colisuem in Rome for instance). Yet those same cities still grow, build new buildings , and thrive.

As for Miami, they aren't demolitioning the Art Deco (circa 1920's/30's) South Beach district to build those highrises you mentioned. I would speculate that many are going on former parking lots. Jacksonville has already destroyed too much of it's history. Let's find a way to blend the old and the new like Boston and Philadelphia do so well. Charlotte destroyed virtually all of it's historic architecture, and it makes a noticeable and negative difference.

[Charles Hunter]

Thank you vicupstate for providing a more reasoned response than was my initial reaction. Good post.