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Jason
12-11-2006, 11:09 AM
Could this work in Jacksonville?


Proposal would limit panhandling


City to consider ordinance modeled after Key West's

By PETER GUINTA | More (javascript:document.searchReporter.submit();) by this reporter | peter.guinta@staugustinerecord.com | Posted: Sunday, December 10, 2006 ; Updated: 6:10 AM on Sunday, December 10, 2006

St. Augustine City Commission will consider Monday an ordinance modeled after what Key West does to limit panhandling.

The proposed new ordinance would prohibit panhandling in Historic Preservation Districts, essentially the areas from Cordova Street to the bay and Bridge Street north to Orange Street.

The new ordinance would grant panhandlers a specific area in which to ask for money -- a 225-square-foot spot at King and Charlotte streets.


City Commissioner George Gardner said that, in crafting such an ordinance, "There have to be reasonable alternative areas" for panhandlers to operate.

The area of prohibition contains a heavy population of tourists and is "highly congested with truck, bus, shuttle, taxi, carriage and other vehicular traffic that competes with space with pedestrians," the ordinance said.

Gardner said the ordinance had been suggested in response to complaints from both residents and visitors.

"People have been approached, especially in the evening, and felt very uncomfortable," he said, adding that a recent purse-snatching downtown has added to nervousness.

Panhandlers currently operating on St. George Street are mostly young people who have crafted cardboard signs asking for money. Others sit in the Plaza de la Constitucion.

The ordinance is patterned after an existing Key West measure, Gardner said.

The text of St. Augustine's ordinance says, "Visitors are regularly and often threateningly accosted by panhandlers."

About five years ago the City Commission passed an ordinance prohibiting street performers and artists from plying their trades on St. George Street.

Earlier this year, the city also passed an Aggressive Panhandling Ordinance to stop the verbal harassment of residents and visitors who did not give money to panhandlers.

According to the draft ordinance, "The City Commission finds that police and code enforcement efforts have been unable to diminish the problems of panhandling and solicitation. ...

"The ordinance also distinguishes between panhandlers and the homeless and "does not intend this ordinance as a pretext from removing the homeless from the city's streets."

johnmeeks1974
12-30-2006, 10:38 PM
I read that Gainesville was seriously considering giving rent-free apartments to their most chronically homeless people! If that plan actually took off, maybe St. Augustine might not have to worry for long...

Jason
01-02-2007, 09:58 AM
It's called jail :rolleyes:

Screamin Eagle
01-02-2007, 10:28 AM
Hehe,

Or! Maybe it should be called the city work force. Where they are forced to work for their room and board. I am sure we can find something suitable for each of them. Even if its picking up trash or counting the feet on caterpillars. At least they will be required to get out of bed each morning and do somehting for 8 hours.

S.E.

Jason
01-02-2007, 11:45 AM
I thought caterpillars have wheels... :D


I do like the concept of the city workforce. There's nothing better than the feeling of earning your own keep.

OceanCowboy
01-02-2007, 12:00 PM
Eagle, I think you have a good point. It is important to give them something to do, no matter how trivial. It gives them something to live for!!!!

Did you see last week that Daytona Beach was giving free bus tickets to the homeless? They wanted to make sure that they "could get home to their families for the holidays"!!! AHAHAHAHAHAHA. i cant beleive the ACLU isn't suing right now!! Can Jacksonville do the same thing? MLK Day is coming up soon!

Chrissy
01-02-2007, 12:05 PM
there is so much litter on the streets, especially those streets around the jail. I would think a nice field trip would be in order.

Jason
01-09-2007, 09:57 AM
City bans begging


No panhandling ordinance takes effect in 10 days

By KATI BEXLEY | More (http://javascript<b></b>:document.searchReporter.submit();) by this reporter | kati.bexley@staugustinerecord.com | Posted: Tuesday, January 9, 2007 ; Updated: 9:46 AM on Tuesday, January 9, 2007

St. Augustine City Commission unanimously voted Monday to ban panhandlers in popular tourist areas of downtown, and police will be assigned to the area to enforce it.

The ordinance will take effect in 10 days, and Mayor Joe Boles emphasized there will be an education and warning process before it's enforced.

If a person is caught panhandling, police can issue a $100 citation. If the person does not pay the fine, it can become a $500 penalty and punishable up to 60 days in the St. Johns County jail.

People flooded City Hall to hear the commission's decision.

The Alcazar Room in City Hall reached its capacity of 90 people and a large group stood outside and watched the meeting on a television.

Numerous people spoke during the public hearing on the ordinance and all asked that it be extended to cover the majority of central downtown streets.

The commission amended the measure to include Historic Preservation zones 2 and 3. The downtown streets affected are immediately off St. George Street, King Street and the Visitor Information Center parking garage.

Commissioner Don Crichlow also requested that police patrol the area and ensure there is no panhandling or other city ordinances violated, such as skateboarding and littering.

St. Augustine Police Chief Loran Lueders said an officer will be designated to the area and that will their only job.

Numerous complaints
The commission acted after receiving numerous complaints from tourists and business owners about aggressive panhandlers.

But commissioners said the panhandling issue is separate from the homeless problem and the need to build a new shelter.

St. Johns County Commission Chairman Ben Rich has said he will not support funding for a new shelter.

County Commissioner Cyndi Stevenson attended the meeting Monday. She said the homeless issue is very complex and she knows it is not just a city problem.

"I don't know what the answer is, but I do think the county should be at the table hearing this issue," she said.

Many for, some against
About 17 people spoke Monday night in favor of the ordinance and five spoke against it.

"This summer has just been a disaster with the panhandling," said Kathy Davis, St. George Street business owner.

"(To keep them away from my store) I've gone out and stood next to (panhandlers) with a sign that says 'Panhandling is a scam.'"

Michael Smithson, president of the Historic Area Council of the St. Johns County Chamber of Commerce, said the Chamber backs the ordinance.

"... (We) realize there's a distinction between panhandling behavior and homeless persons, and the Chamber appreciates that this ordinance is not a pretext for removing the homeless from the city's streets," Smithson said.

Kenneth Russom, Flagler College vice president of business services, said Flagler feared that if something wasn't done about the panhandling it could affect the college's enrollment.

Sumner Gray said there hadn't been enough research on who is panhandling and whether they are really homeless or if they are choosing to make a living off panhandling.

Gray is a downtown business owner and is involved in Food Not Bombs, which feeds the homeless in the downtown plaza three times a week.

"No research has been done on how much money (the panhandlers) make and how many are truly homeless," he said. "I don't understand why this board wouldn't look to really take care of the homeless first. I feel like we can do better than this."

Claude91098
01-09-2007, 10:33 AM
If a person is caught panhandling, police can issue a $100 citation. If the person does not pay the fine, it can become a $500 penalty and punishable up to 60 days in the St. Johns County jail.

The fines would never be paid...they don't have the money...DUH!!!

Just take them on to jail...since they don't have the ability to pay.

The ones that are NOT "truly homeless" but panhandle for a living and have a home, car etc...(and YES, some do that!), THOSE are the ones to fine and jail.

Jason
01-09-2007, 10:34 AM
I was thinking the same thing Claude.