60,000 annual military flight ops at Cecil

[Jim]

That is how many F-18 Hornet flight ops take place at Cecil now. I understand the Super Hornets will be louder and more frequent.

With 164 jets per day right now and what do you hear?

[jandar]

Quite a few actually, I will record them for you.
I am not even in the current AICUZ.

Want me to take pics as well?

[Jim]

Not necessary, I live it myself, thanks.

I just found it curious no one spoke of the current noise levels.

[RMC]

Jim, Are those ops over the Whitehouse OLF or stated to be at CCC? If there were that many current ops at the CCC, I'd definately hear them.

[Jim]

Jim, Are those ops over the Whitehouse OLF or stated to be at CCC? If there were that many current ops at the CCC, I'd definately hear them.
The FAA didn't specify but my understanding is that it's both.

[jandar]

I get quite a few jets, and quite a few helicopters buzzing our house.
Even my navy neighbor has said they should not be flying that low or over our house.

[RMC]

There have been some high flying trainers, a few turbo prop jobs but haven't heard many fighter jocks in a long time.

[macthemouth]

I have posted this before, but I dealt with more plane noise at Baymeadows and 9A than I currently do in Oakleaf. The most common plane that flies over my house is a large propeller driven plane that is not disruptive at all.

I have only seen 4 or 5 fighter jets.

Chris

[thelakelander]

Here's the link to Clay's GIS site. I'm having problems finding the command to display the aerials. Maybe you guys can help.

http://www.ccpao.com/ccpao.asp?page=DisclaimerGIS

[Claude91098]

To find out the real numbers and the correct air fields for ops, call TRACON out at JIA. Anyone there should be able to tell you. Also, if there is an operating ATC unit at Cecil now, (and one is necessary for DoD planes to use it for touch & gos etc), they have a phone number as well. As for Whitehouse, last time I knew it required an LSO to be on station for the jets to practice FCLP there. That's all that runway is used for. And like I said: They fly a "carrier pattern" when they do that at 800 feet. Quite a bit lower than the 1,200 to 1,500 feet they fly in a regular tower pattern. :-)

[johni4595]

164 Hornet flights a day??? Out of Cecil?? Who's making this stuff up?

[thelakelander]

I believe it may have been mentioned in the paper a few days ago. Here's a link to a July 2006 report on Cecil's current activities.

Flight training is a major component of this airport’s general aviation activity. Approximately 85percent of the traffic at Cecil is related to flight training, and 80 percent of that traffic is military...

Currently, Cecil has 10 Florida Army National Guard helicopters based at the airport, and it does accommodate transient military operations. The airport reports that 80 percent of its total annual activity is attributable to military operations. Visiting National Guard and Army Guard helicopters perform the majority of these operations....

www.cfaspp.com/APinfo.asp?UAID=FL000455

I just ran a google search that listed this quote from the votejacksonville.com site:

Cecil Field today operates as an active jet base and co-exists with the surrounding area. According to Federal Aviation Administration data current as of September 28, 2006, 64,255 flight operations have been conducted out of Cecil Field. Of those flight operations, the military was responsible for 46,783 (73 percent) of the operations - that's an average of 128 military operations a day out of Cecil Field for the first nine months of 2006.

They claim the stats come from the FAA and provided a link to their site:
http://www.faa.gov/data_statistics/aviation_data_statistics/

[johni4595]

This falls into the base return proponents argument that since military aircraft are flying at Cecil, they must be jets. When, in fact, a majority of the flights are helicopters and propeller driven P-3s. While we can agree that the military is still a constant user of Cecil's airstrips, we also have to be able to compare apples and oranges. The aircraft that use the field now are not the extremely loud Super Hornets, but much quieter aircraft.

As another matter of fact, I asked Ken Underwood directly how many of the military flights out of Cecil were Super Hornets and his response was, "Not very many".

So, base return proponents on this board can continue to make the specious argument that since military aircraft are currently using the airstrips, then a base return would make little difference in the noise levels. They can continue to fool themselves, if they wish, but don't try to foist such faulty and fallacious arguments on others.

[thelakelander]

Is the super hornet even in operation?

[jandar]

Yes it is. First delivery was in 1999.
Soon to be alongside is the JSF.

[Claude91098]

Just so any who don't already know this:

Military control towers and radar facilities conduct a "traffic count" each and everyday. A touch & go is considered "two" ops...the a/c was arriving and then departing. A low approach only = one op. A take off = one op. A full stop landing = one op. The figures are compiled for many reasons but man power requirements was our primary purpose for conducting them.

I used to do traffic counts at Cecil and Oceana. (Radar). I saw the tower traffic counts but didn't actually compile them. I never saw "thousands and thousands" of ops in a single day. Hundreds...yes. There were a few exceptional days when the couts would break 1,000 and rarely they went over 2,000. The MOST I ever saw for a single day was in the neighborhood of 2,500 or so. This was at Cecil and when VA-174 was there training hot and heavy everyday. Whitehouse going, the local field going and radar was pretty busy that day as well.

Bottomline: The ACTUAL traffic count number DO EXIST and not the general numbers bueaurcrats throw out...but the real numbers. There has to be a way to get your hands on them. They aren't considered "confidential" and therefore should be able to be requested by the media or a private citizen.

[thelakelander]

You can probably find them here, if you can figure the site out.

http://www.faa.gov/data_statistics/aviation_data_statistics/